What's the big deal with AO3?

[azurite]

I joined Archive of Our Own (which I was strangely calling AoOW for some reason) recently and put the 30kisses lists up there as a Collection for people to post to. Given the difference in format between LJ and AO3, I had to adapt some of the rules, but so far I think it's a great option. I've offered to "bang on the code" for the coders and test what I can, but I have yet to hear back from the Volunteer & Recruiting Team, which I just emailed earlier today.

I think I finally started reading a metafandom post that had me reading about how yuletide moved to AO3 and that got some people's knickers in a twist. I've never participated in Yuletide or really known all that much about it, so I wanted to read more. Some users felt shafted by mods freezing or deleting threads/posts asking about just why Yuletide's move to AO3 made other users unhappy, but the mods basically said: it's off-topic, it's debate, and we just don't want it here.

So users could host debates or explanations or whatnot elsewhere, but yeah, the community's for Yuletide, leave it at that, even in the comment threads of mod posts discussing the move.

But I am still curious: why do some people dislike AO3 so much?

Comments

[elf]

Found you by DW search (so you don't fret about why some random person has jumped into your journal). Disclaimer: I'm a shameless OTW/AO3/FL/TWC fangirl.

Serious objections to AO3 (as opposed to random wankage, which you can expect about anything):

1) It's run/managed/owned by OTW, the Organization for Transformative Works, an nonprofit org created to protect/help fanworks--fic, art, vids, etc. ("And what could be wrong with that?")

Anyone who has problems with the OTW could have problems with AO3. These include:
--Don't like how public they're being about fandom,
--Unpleasant personal history with various board members,
--Don't feel they're qualified to represent fandom to the outside world,
--Believe they're being dismissive of people who disagree with them,
--Believe they're trying to set themselves up as perma-BNFs.

All of those are valid issues, even if some of them are based on flawed or skewed information. Probably most of the AO3 objections are actually OTW objections, but it's a reasonable leap--can't have AO3 without OTW connections. There are, however, other issues.

2) Don't like AO3 interface. It's different. It's currently a bit glitchy, and while they're working on the code as fast as they can, that doesn't mean what they end up with is going to make everyone happy. Some functions of the Yuletide archive are probably never going to transfer over entirely just because the code is different. (Among other details, they can't fully isolate YT fics from the rest of the archive.) The layout's different; the search setup is different; the tagging-and-labeling is different. Some people who were very happy with the YT archive just don't like AO3, and there's really nothing that can be done about that.

3) Don't like the surprise move. Others don't mind the interface (or don't mind it much), but *really* didn't like having the archive switched with no advanced warning. (There was warning--the AO3 move was announced before signups started. But some people didn't catch the warning post, and IIRC it wasn't mentioned on the YT site that "if you sign up here for Yuletide, you'll need to post your fic at AO3.") Some fans don't like the fait accompli move--"we're moving! Come with us or be left behind!"--with no space for discussion or feedback.

On the on hand, I can understand being disgruntled at that. On the other... YT's code couldn't handle much more, and the servers have had an endless series of problems. They needed to move, and there was no way to open a discussion of "hey, YT authors--where do you think we should go?" (If there'd been an easy answer to that, they'dv'e moved three years ago.) So for that complaint, I sympathize, but that's about all.

[azurite]

Gotcha--a lot of this is what I was guessing or barely gleaning from some of the branch-off threads, although there are still some issues mentioned that I don't understand. There's been talk about AO3 "centralizing" fandom, and I'm trying to figure out
a) how that's even possible
b) what exactly that means if it doesn't mean what I think it does
c) why that would be a bad thing, per se

I did all the reading on OTW and AO3 before I joined and I don't mind it, so what parts might scream "NOOOOO!" to another reader/user are beyond me--hence me asking. So thanks for some clarification from one end of the spectrum, at least.

[franzeska]

*wanders by a billion years late*

a) It's not, but you wouldn't believe how people freak out every time a big project starts up.

b) It's the InsaneJournal issue: A while back, a whole bunch of people who were fed up with LJ wanted to move their fandom activities to IJ. The two services aren't all that different. There's no particular reason IJ couldn't be just as much of a fandom destination as LJ... And yet it just didn't take off in the same way (aside from a few particular fandoms). The same thing happened with fanfiction.net when they kicked various BNF-y types off and when they banned NC-17 fanfic: people didn't want to use the site anymore, but they couldn't easily and quickly recreate the same community elsewhere.

If AO3 gets really popular, there will again be people who are cut off from a big chunk of fandom unless they choose to participate. I don't find this fact bothersome, but it's certainly a valid fear for people with some existing antipathy to the OTW, the AO3, or the idea of getting used to a new type of site.

c) It will be too high profile, and The Powers That Be will notice us! We'll all get sued and there will be no more fandom. Maybe fandom isn't much of a secret, but it should be. The first rule of fight club fandom is... etc.

Or the BNF cabal will use its powers of evil to [???]. (See any past wank about ff.net mods and their decisions.)

[azurite]

That explains a lot, too! I was definitely against LJ's actions during Strikethrough '07, but by then I'd already purchased a permanent account and was extremely reluctant to delete my account and just go somewhere else. It's also a pain in the butt to do that, even though it's much easier than it used to be, before sites like LJ and IJ were even around.

With FFnet's policy, I understood why they didn't want to allow NC-17 stuff anymore, if I didn't agree with that decision, but I also realized FFnet's staff was/is so shitty that people would continue to post NC-17 stuff under the M rating and get away with it, so at least the fans won on that front. Plus, FFnet, crappy as it is, does have some merits in their organization and bigness, so I couldn't leave there either.

But the thing that differentiates me from those fans in those situations is, I don't mind putting my stuff everywhere. I'd have my fic on DA too, if it could fit, but DA isn't meant for "literature" so much, and so my longer fics have homes elsewhere, including (now), AO3! Folks that choose not to participate baffle me, because as far as I'm concerned, exposure is a good thing, provided you don't link IRL stuff to your fannish stuff, if only because some people mind what their friends/family/employers know about their fannishness.

I really, sincerely doubt all of the creators out there are going to rise up en masse upon hearing about AO3 and deign fanfiction illegal, sick, and wrong. Besides, we do have some rights and I think AO3 is helping to make them clearer to the fans that do think a disclaimer isn't enough but they're going to engage in this so-called "illegal activity" of reading/writing fic anyway.