I agree to disagree, okay?
Aug. 4th, 2003 03:02 am>_< When it comes to things like anime, I have to admit, I like to argue. It's always fun to think that you're an expert in something, but of course, it's always sad when you witness this sort of thing from the other side of the fence; that is to say, when someone goes on and on about something, claiming expertise, yet they have obvious fallacies in their arguments or statements.
I browse Dies Gaudii every now and then, and Anime-Myth linked to it, so I decided to check it out again. A lot of the stuff there is reasonable, and clears up a lot of frequent misconceptions that SM fans/Moonies can have about the series/manga/etc. There's just ONE thing that really, seriously infuriates me-- and it's so utterly simple.
Surname. It means 'family name.' For the lazy, LAST NAME. However, Ian MIller, creator and maintainer of DG, has a point in saying that terms like 'first name' and 'last name' are ambiguous. So let's put it this way. My GIVEN NAME ('first name') is Meredith. My surname/family name is Sweet. One of the common tidbits about Japanese knowledge is that they 'reverse' their names; ergo, you'd think my name "in Japan" would be Sweet, Meredith. Sort of like how our names are on school attendance lists. WRONG! Foriegn, NON-JAPANESE names are always left the way they are. I would still be called Meredith Sweet in Japan, though it's not uncommon for Japanese people trying to be respectful to me to call me Sweet-san, rather than Meri-san.
Now, onto the DG part of it. DG claims (though it does provide reasonable evidence) that the Sailor Starlights all share the SAME given name (first name), but are NOT at all related, are not brothers, etc. There are some idiotic places that have foolish evidence AGAINST this, like "why would Naoko have done something so uncreative" which is an opinion; a mangaka can do whatever she wants, because it makes sense to HER. But I still don't get why "Seiya Kou" is such a controversy.
Evidence against the fact (that Kou really are the 3 Light's given names)
* In the manga (written evidence) all the lights are shown as having 'Kou' listed last. Following the traditional Japanese method of Family Name First, Given Name Last, then Kou WOULD be each of the 3 Light's first name.
Rebuttal:
* In many other written sources, idol names are listed the 'Western' way, with Given Name First, Family Name Last. Besides, even if the names themselves are Japanese in origin (this is disputable with the usage of katakana over the kanji; however, katakana CAN and IS used for Japanese-origin names, for a number of reasons I won't get into here...), there's no reason why the Starlights' "cover" as a group of idol "brothers" would be debated by something as simple as a name order misnomer.
Evidence to the contrary (yet again):
* Everyone in the series refers to the Lights as Seiya-kun, Yaten-kun, and Taiki-kun. This includes Usagi herself, who almost ALWAYS refers to people (close to her or NOT) by their first name. There are a few exceptions, however, so she can't be cited as evidence. And likewise, if people (wanting to be respectful to the trio or not) called them 'Kou-kun' or 'Kou-san,' it would cause much confusion, wouldn't it? So those can't be cited as evidence.
Rebuttal:
* But in the episode titles, Usagi and the other senshi are referred to by their first names (unless there is a pun going on, but since Usagi always announces the titles, they are always verbalized anyway). This applies to Seiya too; and since Usagi's just announcing the title of the episode, why would she have a need to be respectful by referring to Seiya as 'Kou?'
Again:
* You can't claim that Naoko was being uncreative in naming all the Lights 'Kou.' Though she IS reported to have said that the Lights are NOT brothers, this could be interpreted a variety of ways:
Quite a rant, eh? Well, I'll keep surfing, maybe you'll hear more from me. I really have to do the dishes soon though.
I browse Dies Gaudii every now and then, and Anime-Myth linked to it, so I decided to check it out again. A lot of the stuff there is reasonable, and clears up a lot of frequent misconceptions that SM fans/Moonies can have about the series/manga/etc. There's just ONE thing that really, seriously infuriates me-- and it's so utterly simple.
Surname. It means 'family name.' For the lazy, LAST NAME. However, Ian MIller, creator and maintainer of DG, has a point in saying that terms like 'first name' and 'last name' are ambiguous. So let's put it this way. My GIVEN NAME ('first name') is Meredith. My surname/family name is Sweet. One of the common tidbits about Japanese knowledge is that they 'reverse' their names; ergo, you'd think my name "in Japan" would be Sweet, Meredith. Sort of like how our names are on school attendance lists. WRONG! Foriegn, NON-JAPANESE names are always left the way they are. I would still be called Meredith Sweet in Japan, though it's not uncommon for Japanese people trying to be respectful to me to call me Sweet-san, rather than Meri-san.
Now, onto the DG part of it. DG claims (though it does provide reasonable evidence) that the Sailor Starlights all share the SAME given name (first name), but are NOT at all related, are not brothers, etc. There are some idiotic places that have foolish evidence AGAINST this, like "why would Naoko have done something so uncreative" which is an opinion; a mangaka can do whatever she wants, because it makes sense to HER. But I still don't get why "Seiya Kou" is such a controversy.
Evidence against the fact (that Kou really are the 3 Light's given names)
* In the manga (written evidence) all the lights are shown as having 'Kou' listed last. Following the traditional Japanese method of Family Name First, Given Name Last, then Kou WOULD be each of the 3 Light's first name.
Rebuttal:
* In many other written sources, idol names are listed the 'Western' way, with Given Name First, Family Name Last. Besides, even if the names themselves are Japanese in origin (this is disputable with the usage of katakana over the kanji; however, katakana CAN and IS used for Japanese-origin names, for a number of reasons I won't get into here...), there's no reason why the Starlights' "cover" as a group of idol "brothers" would be debated by something as simple as a name order misnomer.
Evidence to the contrary (yet again):
* Everyone in the series refers to the Lights as Seiya-kun, Yaten-kun, and Taiki-kun. This includes Usagi herself, who almost ALWAYS refers to people (close to her or NOT) by their first name. There are a few exceptions, however, so she can't be cited as evidence. And likewise, if people (wanting to be respectful to the trio or not) called them 'Kou-kun' or 'Kou-san,' it would cause much confusion, wouldn't it? So those can't be cited as evidence.
Rebuttal:
* But in the episode titles, Usagi and the other senshi are referred to by their first names (unless there is a pun going on, but since Usagi always announces the titles, they are always verbalized anyway). This applies to Seiya too; and since Usagi's just announcing the title of the episode, why would she have a need to be respectful by referring to Seiya as 'Kou?'
Again:
* You can't claim that Naoko was being uncreative in naming all the Lights 'Kou.' Though she IS reported to have said that the Lights are NOT brothers, this could be interpreted a variety of ways:
- Did she mean REALLY, as in, when they were on Kinmokusei? We know that already, since the Lights revealed to Princess Kakyuu that they were using a cover to find her faster. They had to pretend to be a group of people working together, popular with LOTS of people, especially girls-- and what better way to do that than to be in a boy band? And what better way for a boy band to form than 3 brothers?
- Did she mean literally, even on Earth? Again, you could say we knew that already, since the Lights aren't human. We don't know the rules of gender on Kinmokusei, but from Naoko's own artwork and commentary, it seems as though the Lights were originally female on Kinmokusei (and are as well on Earth, in the manga, and are merely crossdressing; Tin Nyanko even makes it a point to chastise Usagi for associating with "girls who pretend to be boys"), but they gained/had the ability to change gender when necessary (well, at least in the anime version they did). So, they might not have been able to pass off as DNA-related biological brothers... but then again, what could you say about Usagi and Chibi-Usa? They sure aren't cousins... The whole 'brothers' thing was a cover, and no one ever bothered to dispute it. Whether it was LITERALLY true or not doesn't matter. However, their birthdays are listed as follows: February 8, 1979 (Yaten); May 30, 1979 (Taiki); July 30, 1979 (Seiya). There is a little over a 3 month gap between Yaten and Taiki's birthday, and only 2 months between Taiki and Seiya. Even if these dates are "converted to Earth reckoning," and Kinmokusei's people don't follow the same orbit/maternity periods as human females, it's still a bit ridiculous.
- Ian Miller pointed out that since the band name is 'The Three Lights,' and all the boys share the same name (be it a family name or a given name) of 'Kou,' this makes sense. It could be a nice, tidy coincidence, them all having the same first name and then being "Hey, cool, we like music, there's three of us, we all are called 'Kou,' which means 'Light,' so let's call ourselves 'The Three Lights!'" but they were under the COVER of being brothers. Brothers usually have the same surname. Besides, the Lights had to have done their research before they decided to become mega stars, so they must have known the concepts of 'family,' and such. Besides, they recieved a lot of tabloid coverage, and would it have been juicy for some reporter to find a 'Seiya' family, a 'Taiki' family, and a 'Yaten' family claiming blood relation? But if all the boys kept to their 'brothers Kou' story, using Western ordering, then they could claim that they are the last 3 of their of their family, and no one else is left. This closes up THAT loophole; as for the birthdates, they could always be "cousins" that have always thought of each other as brothers.
Quite a rant, eh? Well, I'll keep surfing, maybe you'll hear more from me. I really have to do the dishes soon though.