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Well, here's a question for you
Jul. 10th, 2003 02:12 amLots of anime and manga fans here on my LJ friends list. What's your take on this (comment, since I'm too poor to have a paid account where I can make polls!):
Is it better to rely on scanlations and fan translations of anime and manga, rather than pushing American companies to license the product?
Here's what I've heard many people say on the fullmoon_wo_sagashite@yahoogroups ML:
* It's better that we rely on fan translators, because that way we're not getting ripped off by American companies that could really care less about the actual quality of the work than how much they sell it for.
- I have to agree on this point, at least a little. I tend to buy the Japanese manga at Japantown for $5.50 because not only do I know I am supporting the original artist, but in trying to read the original, I get more story, higher quality art, and I improve my Japanese. The catch is, it's pretty hard to read Japanese all the time. In comparison to many American licensed titles, it's sad how they butcher manga-- they blow up the image size, deteriorate quality, and then demand an extra $5 for a stupid cover! Many times they don't bother to even keep the original format, and images look strange. Or how about when their translating job is half-assed and rushed, or messy? That's even worse! Manga is supposed to be an art form!
And as for anime-- well... I honestly hate the quality of dub anime. Rarely do I find an anime with decent dubbing, and FMOS (the primary title I'm concerned with here) is too touchy to mess up. After all, it's an anime about SINGING! You can't have crappy people doing it! And assuming some company is generous enough to license FMOS with subtitles, the current running price/episode is about $5/ea. That translates to a $15+ DVD, because the trend is to only put 3 episodes on a DVD. WHY? Japanese episodes are only 22 minutes long, on average, and 3 of them is only 66 minutes! That's half as much as most feature length movies that get put on DVD-- and not including 'special features' like normal anime and manga DVDs include (when you get them from Japan).
* If we rely on fan translators, the original artist isn't getting an ounce of the credit or the money for it. That results in less quality titles getting imported to the US, and less for those "bad" companies to translate. It's a double edged sword.
- Also true. It's sad to think that fan translators never get any credit after months (or sometimes even years) of translating a manga, scanning it, etc. and then *poof* some American company swoops in and claims rights to it, and does a 10x worse job than FANS! That's why the industry needs to be made up of people that CARE about what they do, that weren't marketing or advertising majors, but people interested in Japan's culture, in anime, in manga! That way, titles that have never been heard of by fan translators can be licensed first, licensed WELL, sold for a price otaku won't MIND paying, and everyone will walk away happy!
* Yeah, but why is it that those companies always target their anime and manga to specific groups? It's not like it's only pre-teen girls that like Sailormoon, or perverted college guys that like Chobits.
- Again, true. I've liked Sailormoon for a long time-- and I have plenty of friends older than me that still like it. And personally, in comparison to the original depth of the Sailormoon storyline, I find it sad that people have such a stereotypical view of anime and manga, and Sailormoon especially. Just look at Pokemon! *shudder* True, many anime and manga ARE targeted towards kids, but several popular titles AREN'T-- and when they're released in the States, they become targeted either for "kids" or for "adult males." What about teenage girls? Or adult females? What about guys that AREN'T perverted, and happen to like Shojo? Or titles that don't have much romance, and focus primarily on action or drama?
* So our stuff is all for nothing once it gets licensed by an American company- even if we started work on a translation first, or are doing a better job?
- It would be nice if fan translations could be produced on the mass market, that way everyone could work together to produce a quality anime or manga for English-speaking audiences that fans would truly enjoy. But sadly, most fan translators can barely get by paying for the DSL and CDs, along with software to download and subtitle anime... and then there's always the cost of manga and translating. Companies HAVE that money. It would be nice if the two could work together... if companies could research fan translations first, get some insight into the title before they kill it twenty million times over. Besides, intellectual rights will only get you so far. I mean, how many of us are doing something "illegal" by having an MP3 on our computer of a CD we don't own? Copyright issues are one thing in the US, but a bird of a different flock in Japan. Just because you own a copy of the manga doesn't mean you own the RIGHTS to it. So... we're stuck.
* I'm okay with translating it, licensing it and all that... but please, anyone but Tokyopop!
- Well, what can I say? I hate Tokyopop, but I love Tokyopop. They did a terrible job with Sailormoon, but they're getting better, now that they're paying more attention to what the fans actually *want.* They're starting to hire people that are actually INTERESTED in anime and manga-- though admittedly, the way they produce some manga (*coughcough*InitialD, PeachGirl!*coughcough*) downright STINKS, even if it is in the "right-to-left format." I can't stand them leaving the kanji in-- I always like a "thoroughly translated manga," so I'm not stuck wondering what "this says" or what "that says." I remember reading the translation of Evangelion, and that stunk, because I had to keep flipping to the back of the book to read translations of words and kanji! So... maybe give another company, like Viz a chance. Or DarkHorse. There's other companies besides Tokyopop, you know.
The sad thing, I must continue, is how long it takes most companies to get things out. Okay, so let's say X title gets licensed! How long before we actually SEE anything? And even if something gets butchered to be put on TV (it happened for the *shudder* WB, and it happens for cable stations like Cartoon Network), they don't ALWAYS release an uncut version. Lord knows I'd *love* to get my hands on an original version of the Yu-Gi-Oh anime, but nooo... only the uncut manga is available. You're not "allowed" to edit a manga, at least not the actual art/story parts-- that's destruction and defacing of copyrighted property. But anime-- that's something difference. TV censors, cable companies-- they're all really stiff and annoying. We're better off pushing for Ranma-like translations, that offer dub/sub on the same DVD, with 6 episodes/DVD or VHS, and uncut manga translation. Forget FMOS being on TV-- it's too deep.
Lots of stuff people on the list have had to say-- I'm glad that it's so active. I wonder where it'll go from here, and what YOUR take on all this is. ^_^ Let me know.
Is it better to rely on scanlations and fan translations of anime and manga, rather than pushing American companies to license the product?
Here's what I've heard many people say on the fullmoon_wo_sagashite@yahoogroups ML:
* It's better that we rely on fan translators, because that way we're not getting ripped off by American companies that could really care less about the actual quality of the work than how much they sell it for.
- I have to agree on this point, at least a little. I tend to buy the Japanese manga at Japantown for $5.50 because not only do I know I am supporting the original artist, but in trying to read the original, I get more story, higher quality art, and I improve my Japanese. The catch is, it's pretty hard to read Japanese all the time. In comparison to many American licensed titles, it's sad how they butcher manga-- they blow up the image size, deteriorate quality, and then demand an extra $5 for a stupid cover! Many times they don't bother to even keep the original format, and images look strange. Or how about when their translating job is half-assed and rushed, or messy? That's even worse! Manga is supposed to be an art form!
And as for anime-- well... I honestly hate the quality of dub anime. Rarely do I find an anime with decent dubbing, and FMOS (the primary title I'm concerned with here) is too touchy to mess up. After all, it's an anime about SINGING! You can't have crappy people doing it! And assuming some company is generous enough to license FMOS with subtitles, the current running price/episode is about $5/ea. That translates to a $15+ DVD, because the trend is to only put 3 episodes on a DVD. WHY? Japanese episodes are only 22 minutes long, on average, and 3 of them is only 66 minutes! That's half as much as most feature length movies that get put on DVD-- and not including 'special features' like normal anime and manga DVDs include (when you get them from Japan).
* If we rely on fan translators, the original artist isn't getting an ounce of the credit or the money for it. That results in less quality titles getting imported to the US, and less for those "bad" companies to translate. It's a double edged sword.
- Also true. It's sad to think that fan translators never get any credit after months (or sometimes even years) of translating a manga, scanning it, etc. and then *poof* some American company swoops in and claims rights to it, and does a 10x worse job than FANS! That's why the industry needs to be made up of people that CARE about what they do, that weren't marketing or advertising majors, but people interested in Japan's culture, in anime, in manga! That way, titles that have never been heard of by fan translators can be licensed first, licensed WELL, sold for a price otaku won't MIND paying, and everyone will walk away happy!
* Yeah, but why is it that those companies always target their anime and manga to specific groups? It's not like it's only pre-teen girls that like Sailormoon, or perverted college guys that like Chobits.
- Again, true. I've liked Sailormoon for a long time-- and I have plenty of friends older than me that still like it. And personally, in comparison to the original depth of the Sailormoon storyline, I find it sad that people have such a stereotypical view of anime and manga, and Sailormoon especially. Just look at Pokemon! *shudder* True, many anime and manga ARE targeted towards kids, but several popular titles AREN'T-- and when they're released in the States, they become targeted either for "kids" or for "adult males." What about teenage girls? Or adult females? What about guys that AREN'T perverted, and happen to like Shojo? Or titles that don't have much romance, and focus primarily on action or drama?
* So our stuff is all for nothing once it gets licensed by an American company- even if we started work on a translation first, or are doing a better job?
- It would be nice if fan translations could be produced on the mass market, that way everyone could work together to produce a quality anime or manga for English-speaking audiences that fans would truly enjoy. But sadly, most fan translators can barely get by paying for the DSL and CDs, along with software to download and subtitle anime... and then there's always the cost of manga and translating. Companies HAVE that money. It would be nice if the two could work together... if companies could research fan translations first, get some insight into the title before they kill it twenty million times over. Besides, intellectual rights will only get you so far. I mean, how many of us are doing something "illegal" by having an MP3 on our computer of a CD we don't own? Copyright issues are one thing in the US, but a bird of a different flock in Japan. Just because you own a copy of the manga doesn't mean you own the RIGHTS to it. So... we're stuck.
* I'm okay with translating it, licensing it and all that... but please, anyone but Tokyopop!
- Well, what can I say? I hate Tokyopop, but I love Tokyopop. They did a terrible job with Sailormoon, but they're getting better, now that they're paying more attention to what the fans actually *want.* They're starting to hire people that are actually INTERESTED in anime and manga-- though admittedly, the way they produce some manga (*coughcough*InitialD, PeachGirl!*coughcough*) downright STINKS, even if it is in the "right-to-left format." I can't stand them leaving the kanji in-- I always like a "thoroughly translated manga," so I'm not stuck wondering what "this says" or what "that says." I remember reading the translation of Evangelion, and that stunk, because I had to keep flipping to the back of the book to read translations of words and kanji! So... maybe give another company, like Viz a chance. Or DarkHorse. There's other companies besides Tokyopop, you know.
The sad thing, I must continue, is how long it takes most companies to get things out. Okay, so let's say X title gets licensed! How long before we actually SEE anything? And even if something gets butchered to be put on TV (it happened for the *shudder* WB, and it happens for cable stations like Cartoon Network), they don't ALWAYS release an uncut version. Lord knows I'd *love* to get my hands on an original version of the Yu-Gi-Oh anime, but nooo... only the uncut manga is available. You're not "allowed" to edit a manga, at least not the actual art/story parts-- that's destruction and defacing of copyrighted property. But anime-- that's something difference. TV censors, cable companies-- they're all really stiff and annoying. We're better off pushing for Ranma-like translations, that offer dub/sub on the same DVD, with 6 episodes/DVD or VHS, and uncut manga translation. Forget FMOS being on TV-- it's too deep.
Lots of stuff people on the list have had to say-- I'm glad that it's so active. I wonder where it'll go from here, and what YOUR take on all this is. ^_^ Let me know.
