I have a query (it isn't bunnies)
Apr. 10th, 2008 11:39 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
azuriteExcerpts from two reviews I received for WDKY recently (the same person, different chapter reviews):
Kaiba does seem a bit OOC (I can't see him falling for Tea so quickly...)
for chapter 4
Bakura?! OOC to the max... o0 I know you gave a reason, so it's not a problem t the story, but MAN. I was NOT expecting that... =D
for chapter 7
I suppose I could always do Review Replies (either reply to the author directly, since these were reviews from FFnet) or simply edit the Review Reply LJ entries I have for these chapters, but rather than just do that, I want to reply and ask a question of any readers of WDKY on this here FL:
I don't see Kaiba as being (that) OOC in any portion of WDKY. I admit, I'm not as good at characterizing him as the bastard he well can be, but part of "fleshing out a character" means giving them new dimensions and justifying that growth or change. It's not as if I've made Kaiba a wibbly little moppet who'll do anything for Téa. Conversely, I've tried to make this as "realistic" (in the horribly soap operatic, angst-filled way) as possible, and more often than not, Kaiba's a jerk. That's how I saw him in canon, but he wasn't some irredeemable jerk, which is why I fell for the pairing (Azureshipping) in the first place.
My justification here is the fact that this story was started when Battle City was still running on TV. And I mean the ORIGINAL tournament, not even the Duel Tower episodes-- that's why Noah showing up and being a ghost was out of left field, and I had to write a whole bunch of stuff to explain why they HADN'T run into Noah midway through the BC tournament, when pretty much everything else about the story used anime elements. That said, Kaiba's known Téa for more than a year prior to ANY of the events of WDKY. I'd say a year of not giving a shit about someone, eventually (and quite reluctantly) getting to know them, and then several months of awkward "Well, she's around and I sympathize with her plight but I'd never tell her to her face and her face is actually quite attractive now that I look at it..." before Kaiba even CONSIDERS he might be feeling something romantic (actually, he recognizes the sexual attraction first). Consider also his character in canon: it's bordering on asexual. Because the show is targeted toward younger boys and it's action-oriented, there's not much (if any) emphasis on romance or development in that respect at all. Kaiba could be a total playboy on the side or a complete prude, a virgin duelist!
I wouldn't call that him falling for her quick. The other thing is, this isn't Kaiba's story. It's Téa's, and I establish that from the get-go. We might get into Kaiba's head every now and again, but what it boils down to is, this is the story of Téa's growth more than anyone else's, the things she sees and does and feels-- even if there are other people there, seeing and doing and experiencing and feeling. If I did a version of WDKY, maybe I'd have much more dramatic thought-angst on Kaiba's part about how he's struggling to deal with the very real possibility of having a first "crush" or first "serious relationship," but again, that's not the point of WDKY.
Moving on, Bakura... Bakura's a hard one. See, by the end of Yu-Gi-Oh, we learn that the guy we all called Yami no Bakura (or Dark Bakura, or Bakura with the host of Ryou, or Bathead) was not actually the spirit of the Thief King Bakura the way Yami no Yuugi was the spirit of Pharaoh Atem. He was simply a "shard" of Zork Necrophades, darkness personified, essentially. Though it seemed like he was out for revenge, it never really crystallized, and most of the time, Bakura came across as a guy just out for his own benefit, his own amusement. You did get the feeling that he knew a lot more than he was letting on, though, and based on THAT impression from when I first started writing WDKY, that's how I've developed Bakura. It's been years now since the story started, and Yu-Gi-Oh the series (both the anime and the manga) have ended in both their Japanese and translated English/dub forms.
It's a bit like saying someone's Harry Potter is OOC when he doesn't yell in CAPSLOCK OF RAGE because a fanfic was written about him reacting to someone's death prior to Book Five. I mean, considering when I wrote it (and the fact that I developed a humongous plan from the very start), do you really expect my Bakura to be exactly like the guy in the show? He can't be, not anymore-- and I'm slowly but surely revealing the reasons why he does what he does. I guess him helping someone WOULD be OOC, but then again, remember: everything he does in WDKY has a dark side, for his own benefit. Hell, he even SAYS as much when he saves Téa, and the concept of Téa and Kaiba OWING him for that is a recurring theme!
So, my questions:
(1) Assuming you can have a something of a "character bell curve" where there are certain definable traits for any given character, at what point do you deviate TOO FAR from those points and become "OOC" no matter what "justification" is given? For example, if I turn Kaiba into a sobbing, crying mess, that's pretty far off his "characterization chart." I could, theoretically, justify it (thereby bringing his "characterization line" up to this far, deviant point on the map), but I'd have to do a damn good job at it-- make it believable. What would be UNBELIEVABLE for Kaiba or Bakura, no matter what?
(2) Considering the final arc of Yu-Gi-Oh revealed Yami no Bakura as not really his own personality (i.e., not the Thief King out for revenge because of what the Pharaoh Atem's father/former advisor did to his hometown, friends, and family in the Kul Elna massacre), what makes "Bakura" in-character or wildly OOC? How do you recognize a character who has the potential to change from one season/arc to the next? What are Bakura's underlying, never-change traits?
Kaiba does seem a bit OOC (I can't see him falling for Tea so quickly...)
for chapter 4
Bakura?! OOC to the max... o0 I know you gave a reason, so it's not a problem t the story, but MAN. I was NOT expecting that... =D
for chapter 7
I suppose I could always do Review Replies (either reply to the author directly, since these were reviews from FFnet) or simply edit the Review Reply LJ entries I have for these chapters, but rather than just do that, I want to reply and ask a question of any readers of WDKY on this here FL:
I don't see Kaiba as being (that) OOC in any portion of WDKY. I admit, I'm not as good at characterizing him as the bastard he well can be, but part of "fleshing out a character" means giving them new dimensions and justifying that growth or change. It's not as if I've made Kaiba a wibbly little moppet who'll do anything for Téa. Conversely, I've tried to make this as "realistic" (in the horribly soap operatic, angst-filled way) as possible, and more often than not, Kaiba's a jerk. That's how I saw him in canon, but he wasn't some irredeemable jerk, which is why I fell for the pairing (Azureshipping) in the first place.
My justification here is the fact that this story was started when Battle City was still running on TV. And I mean the ORIGINAL tournament, not even the Duel Tower episodes-- that's why Noah showing up and being a ghost was out of left field, and I had to write a whole bunch of stuff to explain why they HADN'T run into Noah midway through the BC tournament, when pretty much everything else about the story used anime elements. That said, Kaiba's known Téa for more than a year prior to ANY of the events of WDKY. I'd say a year of not giving a shit about someone, eventually (and quite reluctantly) getting to know them, and then several months of awkward "Well, she's around and I sympathize with her plight but I'd never tell her to her face and her face is actually quite attractive now that I look at it..." before Kaiba even CONSIDERS he might be feeling something romantic (actually, he recognizes the sexual attraction first). Consider also his character in canon: it's bordering on asexual. Because the show is targeted toward younger boys and it's action-oriented, there's not much (if any) emphasis on romance or development in that respect at all. Kaiba could be a total playboy on the side or a complete prude, a virgin duelist!
I wouldn't call that him falling for her quick. The other thing is, this isn't Kaiba's story. It's Téa's, and I establish that from the get-go. We might get into Kaiba's head every now and again, but what it boils down to is, this is the story of Téa's growth more than anyone else's, the things she sees and does and feels-- even if there are other people there, seeing and doing and experiencing and feeling. If I did a version of WDKY, maybe I'd have much more dramatic thought-angst on Kaiba's part about how he's struggling to deal with the very real possibility of having a first "crush" or first "serious relationship," but again, that's not the point of WDKY.
Moving on, Bakura... Bakura's a hard one. See, by the end of Yu-Gi-Oh, we learn that the guy we all called Yami no Bakura (or Dark Bakura, or Bakura with the host of Ryou, or Bathead) was not actually the spirit of the Thief King Bakura the way Yami no Yuugi was the spirit of Pharaoh Atem. He was simply a "shard" of Zork Necrophades, darkness personified, essentially. Though it seemed like he was out for revenge, it never really crystallized, and most of the time, Bakura came across as a guy just out for his own benefit, his own amusement. You did get the feeling that he knew a lot more than he was letting on, though, and based on THAT impression from when I first started writing WDKY, that's how I've developed Bakura. It's been years now since the story started, and Yu-Gi-Oh the series (both the anime and the manga) have ended in both their Japanese and translated English/dub forms.
It's a bit like saying someone's Harry Potter is OOC when he doesn't yell in CAPSLOCK OF RAGE because a fanfic was written about him reacting to someone's death prior to Book Five. I mean, considering when I wrote it (and the fact that I developed a humongous plan from the very start), do you really expect my Bakura to be exactly like the guy in the show? He can't be, not anymore-- and I'm slowly but surely revealing the reasons why he does what he does. I guess him helping someone WOULD be OOC, but then again, remember: everything he does in WDKY has a dark side, for his own benefit. Hell, he even SAYS as much when he saves Téa, and the concept of Téa and Kaiba OWING him for that is a recurring theme!
So, my questions:
(1) Assuming you can have a something of a "character bell curve" where there are certain definable traits for any given character, at what point do you deviate TOO FAR from those points and become "OOC" no matter what "justification" is given? For example, if I turn Kaiba into a sobbing, crying mess, that's pretty far off his "characterization chart." I could, theoretically, justify it (thereby bringing his "characterization line" up to this far, deviant point on the map), but I'd have to do a damn good job at it-- make it believable. What would be UNBELIEVABLE for Kaiba or Bakura, no matter what?
(2) Considering the final arc of Yu-Gi-Oh revealed Yami no Bakura as not really his own personality (i.e., not the Thief King out for revenge because of what the Pharaoh Atem's father/former advisor did to his hometown, friends, and family in the Kul Elna massacre), what makes "Bakura" in-character or wildly OOC? How do you recognize a character who has the potential to change from one season/arc to the next? What are Bakura's underlying, never-change traits?
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no subject
Date: 2008-04-11 06:54 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-04-11 02:56 pm (UTC)Really, when you have three "canon" storylines for the same fandom, I don't see how anyone really has a right to critique anything but the most outrageous thing and actually have the gall to call it "OOC."
When I RP Bakura, I usually go for a "blend" type personality balancing the "evil personified" (can we say plot-plug device? -_-*) bit with the actual human king of thieves. Bakura's personality being entirely self-serving in seeking revenge and destruction to excess in the same time, while generally putting out mass amounts of mind-fsckery, it works. And so, he can cast blame for what happens to "human parts" of him, while still being truly evil, but in an unexpected, utterly manipulative way.
"I am a limping wolf, really. See? Nice doggie? Come a little closer and I'll show you-*BITE*"
People tend to get pissy if Bakura doesn't conform to THEIR translation of him, though. And it's kind of funny because all Bakura is, is just a deus ex machina style plot device for the author, really. (And he's basically the one villain who isn't redeemed by the power of super special awesome friendship.)
And on the subject of Kaiba? I've seen far worse, and you prolonged their falling-for for FAR longer than most people do.
Hey, you're still the ONE Azureshipping fic I read. Pay no attention to the nitpickers behind the curtain, if you ask me.
(And this makes what? The second comment I've actually addressed to you? *gulps nervously* Um...hi? *waves sheepishly*)
no subject
Date: 2008-04-11 03:27 pm (UTC)I'm torn between figuring out who I like writing the most in this whole series: Téa, who I'm trying to have grow up, because even though she's always been my favorite character, she's far from perfect; Kaiba, because he's SO DAMN FUN to mess with -
In the show, we've got him completely motivated to get the Millennium Items and have a bit of fun destroying things along the way, but you wonder-- why? Why does he spend time going after "the Pharaoh" and his friends, versus, say, making a mission out of attacking Shaadii or even Isis and Malik? Plus, like I said in the OP, he gave me the vibe of knowing a lot more than he was letting on; I don't think the existence of the Rod and Necklace shocked him at all, which is why I wonder he didn't go after them sooner. If Malik stole the Rod so easily, why couldn't Malik have done the same? The idea of him wanting something he honest-to-god can't have (and doesn't "want him" in return) sounded like too much fun to pass up. I wanted to show that dark half of Bakura as being human too, but expressing his emotions totally different from how Yugi or Kaiba might. I don't think I could ever write him as being "redeemed," per se, but in the same way Kaiba is a grudging participant in a lot of Yugi's plans, I could see Bakura doing that too-- thinking all the while, 'if there's something in it for me, who cares? I'll pull the rug out from underneath them and make off like the bandit I am!' (But I'd never have Bakura initiated into the 'friendship circle' thing. Ryou, sure, maybe, but Bakura... he'd honestly only do it to 'get it over with' and maybe trick someone into thinking he was Ryou or that he was 'safe.')
Anyway, for all that babbling, I totally appreciate you still reading WDKY! :D
no subject
Date: 2008-04-11 03:32 pm (UTC)Matter of fact, I think I liked UsaMamo because I watched "A Crystal Clear Destiny" first for Sailor Moon, too. Most of my die-hard 'ships resulted in me watching/reading something completely out of order. :P Many of those relationships were "canon," and I've liked others (I've grown to like Seiya/Usagi, and I was a Yami/Téa or Yugi/Téa shipper before I was a Seto x Anzu one) as well. So I'm one of those "hands in both cookie jars" kinds of people when it comes to pairings.
I would recommend checking out yu-jyo.net for episode comparisons between the original Japanese and the dub of Yu-Gi-Oh, and also seeing the original (sometimes badly-subtitled) episodes on YouTube if you can.